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	<title>Comments on: The Nature of Tools: Thoughts on Worship</title>
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		<title>By: Accardi</title>
		<link>http://joshuawagneronline.com/2009/02/the-nature-of-tools-thoughts-on-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-25656</link>
		<dc:creator>Accardi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:40:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: zcmlregistry</title>
		<link>http://joshuawagneronline.com/2009/02/the-nature-of-tools-thoughts-on-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-25604</link>
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		<link>http://joshuawagneronline.com/2009/02/the-nature-of-tools-thoughts-on-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-19898</link>
		<dc:creator>yysxcylbikh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Sep 2009 23:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<link>http://joshuawagneronline.com/2009/02/the-nature-of-tools-thoughts-on-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-15934</link>
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		<link>http://joshuawagneronline.com/2009/02/the-nature-of-tools-thoughts-on-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-14690</link>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 03:01:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: amvnoggi</title>
		<link>http://joshuawagneronline.com/2009/02/the-nature-of-tools-thoughts-on-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-11239</link>
		<dc:creator>amvnoggi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 16:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Tim S.</title>
		<link>http://joshuawagneronline.com/2009/02/the-nature-of-tools-thoughts-on-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 03:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&quot;It&#039;s all about how the tool is used!  The intent of the heart decides what is good or evil.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;This opening statement from the initial post precludes discernment - a biblically commanded facet of our sanctification.  If we must discern the intent of the heart to determine good or evil (an act left to God alone), how then can we determine the goodness or badness of any created thing?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;God gave us the raw materials for music - the physical elements from which we craft sound.  These include timbre, pitch, duration, and volume.  No more, no less.  From these acoustical elements, sinful human beings create musical compositions - some good, some bad - yet all tainted with sin.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The intent of the heart CANNOT be discerned by human beings. This is a false premise.  God alone judges the intent of the human heart.  Only the products of human beings (their words, actions, creations) can be judged for their excellence or lack thereof.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Music is no more a neutral tool than language is a neutral tool.  As Scott was expressing above, a single letter may be neutral; a single word may be neutral.  But a cohesively expressed thought is not neutral.  By the same token, a single note may be neutral; a single chord may be neutral.  But a cohesively expressed musical phrase is not neutral.  It communicates an emotion by expressing motion in time.  The motions that human beings manifest when feeling particular emotions can be expressed in sound through time, thus evoking that same emotion in a hearer.  For instance, when we feel sadness we tend to move slowly and smoothly, speak softly, with downward motions and inflections.  Music elicits this emotion by using the sounds signifiers for these motions: smooth, soft, slow, downwardly turned music characterizes sad music.  The music doesn&#039;t become sad only when it is heard; it contains properties inherent in its sound constructs that communicate sadness.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Music is not a neutral tool, but a highly powerful emotional tool.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Scripture acknowledges this repeatedly.  Exodus 32:17 demonstrates that sounded - specifically singing - was the first indication that Moses and Joshua had that the Israelites were committing idolatry.  Daniel 3 shows the seductive power of music to idolatry.  Many other examples abound in scripture.  A student of music in scripture cannot come away with the notion that God created music as a neutral tool.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Sincerely,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Tim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It&#8217;s all about how the tool is used!  The intent of the heart decides what is good or evil.&#8221;</p>
<p>This opening statement from the initial post precludes discernment &#8211; a biblically commanded facet of our sanctification.  If we must discern the intent of the heart to determine good or evil (an act left to God alone), how then can we determine the goodness or badness of any created thing?</p>
<p>God gave us the raw materials for music &#8211; the physical elements from which we craft sound.  These include timbre, pitch, duration, and volume.  No more, no less.  From these acoustical elements, sinful human beings create musical compositions &#8211; some good, some bad &#8211; yet all tainted with sin.</p>
<p>The intent of the heart CANNOT be discerned by human beings. This is a false premise.  God alone judges the intent of the human heart.  Only the products of human beings (their words, actions, creations) can be judged for their excellence or lack thereof.  </p>
<p>Music is no more a neutral tool than language is a neutral tool.  As Scott was expressing above, a single letter may be neutral; a single word may be neutral.  But a cohesively expressed thought is not neutral.  By the same token, a single note may be neutral; a single chord may be neutral.  But a cohesively expressed musical phrase is not neutral.  It communicates an emotion by expressing motion in time.  The motions that human beings manifest when feeling particular emotions can be expressed in sound through time, thus evoking that same emotion in a hearer.  For instance, when we feel sadness we tend to move slowly and smoothly, speak softly, with downward motions and inflections.  Music elicits this emotion by using the sounds signifiers for these motions: smooth, soft, slow, downwardly turned music characterizes sad music.  The music doesn&#8217;t become sad only when it is heard; it contains properties inherent in its sound constructs that communicate sadness.</p>
<p>Music is not a neutral tool, but a highly powerful emotional tool.  </p>
<p>Scripture acknowledges this repeatedly.  Exodus 32:17 demonstrates that sounded &#8211; specifically singing &#8211; was the first indication that Moses and Joshua had that the Israelites were committing idolatry.  Daniel 3 shows the seductive power of music to idolatry.  Many other examples abound in scripture.  A student of music in scripture cannot come away with the notion that God created music as a neutral tool.  </p>
<p>Sincerely,</p>
<p>Tim</p>
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		<title>By: Don Johnson</title>
		<link>http://joshuawagneronline.com/2009/02/the-nature-of-tools-thoughts-on-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-9</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Josh, if I may chime in, you said above:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;But I still don&#039;t agree that styles are uses. I don&#039;t see how a Haydn piece is fundamentally different than a Chris Tomlin piece or a Kutless piece. They all use the same theory, they are different adaptations of the theory.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The key word in your response would be &quot;adaptation&quot;. According to the American Heritage Dictionary, cited on Dictionary.com, the top two definitions of adaptation are:&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;1. 1. The act or process of adapting.&lt;br/&gt;   2. The state of being adapted.&lt;br/&gt;   3. Something, such as a device or mechanism, that is changed or changes so as to become suitable to a new or special application or situation.&lt;br/&gt;   4. A composition that has been recast into a new form: The play is an adaptation of a short novel.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;2. 1. Something, such as a device or mechanism, that is changed or changes so as to become suitable to a new or special application or situation.&lt;br/&gt;   2. A composition that has been recast into a new form: The play is an adaptation of a short novel.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;~~~&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;All of these definitions seem to be talking of &quot;uses&quot;. In other words, some operation is performed on something in order to adapt it to another form, or, in order to use it in another form.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think the impasse you and Scott are having hinges on what you mean in your first response to his comment. What does &quot;adaptation&quot; mean? Is it not &lt;i&gt;using&lt;/i&gt; musical theory in some way so as to create varying forms?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Ok, I&#039;ll chime out now. Just thought I would probe that thought a little...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Maranatha!&lt;br/&gt;Don Johnson&lt;br/&gt;Jer 33.3</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, if I may chime in, you said above:</p>
<p>&#8220;But I still don&#8217;t agree that styles are uses. I don&#8217;t see how a Haydn piece is fundamentally different than a Chris Tomlin piece or a Kutless piece. They all use the same theory, they are different adaptations of the theory.&#8221;</p>
<p>The key word in your response would be &#8220;adaptation&#8221;. According to the American Heritage Dictionary, cited on Dictionary.com, the top two definitions of adaptation are:</p>
<p>1. 1. The act or process of adapting.<br />   2. The state of being adapted.<br />   3. Something, such as a device or mechanism, that is changed or changes so as to become suitable to a new or special application or situation.<br />   4. A composition that has been recast into a new form: The play is an adaptation of a short novel.</p>
<p>2. 1. Something, such as a device or mechanism, that is changed or changes so as to become suitable to a new or special application or situation.<br />   2. A composition that has been recast into a new form: The play is an adaptation of a short novel.</p>
<p>~~~</p>
<p>All of these definitions seem to be talking of &#8220;uses&#8221;. In other words, some operation is performed on something in order to adapt it to another form, or, in order to use it in another form.</p>
<p>I think the impasse you and Scott are having hinges on what you mean in your first response to his comment. What does &#8220;adaptation&#8221; mean? Is it not <i>using</i> musical theory in some way so as to create varying forms?</p>
<p>Ok, I&#8217;ll chime out now. Just thought I would probe that thought a little&#8230;</p>
<p>Maranatha!<br />Don Johnson<br />Jer 33.3</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Wagner</title>
		<link>http://joshuawagneronline.com/2009/02/the-nature-of-tools-thoughts-on-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Wagner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>At this juncture, I think we can just agree to disagree.  We both agree that we should be very conscious of what our music is communicating, and that our worship should be more than just a good feeling (worship in Spirit and Truth).  Let us focus on that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At this juncture, I think we can just agree to disagree.  We both agree that we should be very conscious of what our music is communicating, and that our worship should be more than just a good feeling (worship in Spirit and Truth).  Let us focus on that.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Aniol</title>
		<link>http://joshuawagneronline.com/2009/02/the-nature-of-tools-thoughts-on-worship/comment-page-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Aniol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I still think you&#039;re making category errors, Josh.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Hammer = Music Theory (neutral object)&lt;br/&gt;Song = Hitting a nail or smashing someone&#039;s head&lt;br/&gt;Style = Different instances of hitting a nail all combined into a group&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You say a style is a tool that is used to create songs. You have it backwards. You can&#039;t have a style until you have a group of songs with similar characteristics. If songs carry messages, then groups of songs with similar characteristics carry messages - that&#039;s a style.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Regarding biblical authority on this issue. Of course the Bible does not tell us what styles are pleasing to the Lord. But it does tell us that we should be concerned with our communication. Music is communication; therefore we should be concerned about what our music is communicating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still think you&#8217;re making category errors, Josh.</p>
<p>Hammer = Music Theory (neutral object)<br />Song = Hitting a nail or smashing someone&#8217;s head<br />Style = Different instances of hitting a nail all combined into a group</p>
<p>You say a style is a tool that is used to create songs. You have it backwards. You can&#8217;t have a style until you have a group of songs with similar characteristics. If songs carry messages, then groups of songs with similar characteristics carry messages &#8211; that&#8217;s a style.</p>
<p>Regarding biblical authority on this issue. Of course the Bible does not tell us what styles are pleasing to the Lord. But it does tell us that we should be concerned with our communication. Music is communication; therefore we should be concerned about what our music is communicating.</p>
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